Jordi Juan, Lola García, Barcelona, 25 August 2024
Interview Director of La Vanguardia to Salvador Illa
Image: The president of the Generalitat during the interview with ‘La Vanguardia’.
Xavi Jurio / Own
‘Catalonia can help to improve Spain and it is one of my objectives’.
The president launches a message of harmony to the rest of the autonomous regions, despite the agreement with ERC for the singular financing.
Salvador Illa is the first non-independent president of the Generalitat for fourteen years. This is his first interview after his investiture and, now installed in the Palau de la Generalitat, he launches a message of harmony towards the rest of the autonomous regions, despite the fact that his agreement with ERC for a singular financing of Catalonia threatens to inflame many territories in Spain.
Given the difficulties you have had in reaching an investiture agreement, with only 42 MPs, how do you think you will be able to govern?
They have been two very difficult investiture agreements, with ERC and the commons, but precisely for that reason they are very well thought out, very solid and positive for the country. They are good agreements and a first step in a legislature that I believe will be fruitful.
Do you think that ERC and the Commons could enter the Government, perhaps after their congresses, or do you think it would be better to govern alone and make agreements with whoever is willing to do so at any given moment?
The agreements we have do not contemplate the entry into the Government of either ERC or the commons. I am very respectful of the congressional processes of the other parties, and they have to take the decisions they consider most appropriate. I will be loyal and faithful to the investiture agreements and my priority and preferred interlocutors will be ERC and the comunes. I believe it is logical and common sense because they are the ones who have made it possible to break the deadlock in Catalonia. From here on, I am open to dialogue with other formations except those that engage in hate speeches. On some issues it would be positive if we could reach broad agreements.
But what you envisage is a solitary government.
Yes, for the moment it is a solitary government and that is my horizon.
One of the most important agreements is that of financing. In recent days there have been disagreements between Minister Montero and Josep Borrell over whether or not what has been agreed is an economic agreement. Is it?
It is an agreement to improve Catalonia’s financing with its own formula, a unique financing. The agreement is public, everyone can read it and see in what terms it is expressed. I believe it is a point of broad consensus in Catalan society, that of improving financing and our institutions of self-government, and we knew that this would generate a lot of noise. Some may find the noise convenient both here and outside Catalonia. I will not fall into that trap. I will act with loyalty to the agreements with ERC and the Commons. Financing must be improved in order to improve public services, and we will comply, as we must.
Is Borrell making noise?
No. I respect everyone’s opinions. What I am saying is that the agreement is public, and we will comply with it. I think it is a good thing that there is an improvement in the financing of Catalonia and the rest of the communities. I don’t like noisy language, but reflective and constructive language. We have signed an agreement and we have explained the reasons.
Catalan agreement?
‘It is an agreement to improve Catalonia’s financing with its own formula.
The improvement in Catalonia’s financing does not mean a detriment to other autonomous regions?
Catalonia has the capacity to improve Spain, and that will be one of the objectives of my government, that Catalonia helps to improve Spain. Not only in terms of financing, but also in other areas. It is something that stems from the deep conviction of a friendly, constructive Catalonia that defends its self-government and its own political personality, but that is involved in helping to improve a plural, diverse and plurinational Spain in a Europe with a federal horizon. This is my intimate conviction. We can also make contributions to Spain as a whole in this area. To be fair, we have never denied, nor has anyone asked me to, solidarity between different people. The best way to show solidarity with the rest of Spanish citizens is to implement policies that improve education, health and security. I say this because of some comments that have been made very lightly in other parts of Spain. At a time of extreme right-wing discourse that plays on fear, the way to combat this is to attack the problem of security, housing and public services with serious, solvent policies and adequate resources.
Is it an objective that Catalonia should have a more relevant economic fabric and that all the weight should not be so concentrated in Madrid?
Catalonia must once again lead Spain economically. It must be one of the leading regions in Europe in generating prosperity. We are at a time of very significant technological, geopolitical, economic and environmental changes, and we have to update the ways of working of the last 30 or 40 years. We have the capabilities, the industrial and financial fabric to do so. And the government over which I preside must accompany this process of placing Catalonia at the forefront of generating prosperity in Spain. I believe that Catalonia has much to contribute here.
Catalonia must once again lead Spain economically.
There are those who consider that the unique financing agreement is a way of changing the autonomous system, in the same way that the Statute was once said to be a way of changing the Constitution through the back door. It is even said that it is not proper to federalism but to a confederation, what do you think?
Do they want to change the territorial system? No. What we are trying to do is to propose a financing model that provides Catalonia with the resources she needs to provide her public services within the current legal framework. On that basis, are you looking for a federal horizon? Yes. This is not the first time that my political grouping has defended it. But this fits perfectly within the framework of coexistence of the Spanish Constitution.
Solidarity
‘There are people who want to make a lot of noise; this is Catalonia’s approach to solidarity’.
In order to obtain more resources, it was not necessary for Catalonia to assume the collection and management of all taxes through its own Treasury.
It is a model that we believe to be effective and that is based on the point of agreement of the statutory debate. At that time, the PSC, ERC and other political groups were in agreement and it seems to us that it fits within the Constitution.
And if it does not achieve the majority needed to pass it in Congress?
We will look for ways and means to make it effective. That is my commitment. It will not be easy. There are people here and outside who are making a lot of noise on this issue. But I would like to invite them to take a constructive approach, to join Catalonia’s approach, which is one of solidarity.
Investiture pacts
‘I will act with loyalty to the agreements with ERC and the Commons. We will comply’.
The PP and some leaders of the PSOE argue that the agreement for their investiture and the one that gave the presidency to Pedro Sánchez give wings to independence because it legitimises many of their proposals.
One only has to review the agreements that some of these parties have made in the past to see that they are agreements between parties that have profound disagreements on the Catalan horizon, but that practise useful and constructive politics. I sincerely believe that the agreement we have reached will be beneficial for Catalonia and for Spain as a whole.
You have a priority relationship with President Sánchez. Does that mean that issues that are pending with the central government, such as the fulfilment of the execution of investments in Catalonia, will be fulfilled or does it mean, as others say, that you are an appendage of the Moncloa?
I have a strong political relationship with the President of the Spanish government and also a personal relationship with Pedro Sánchez. The two are separate. I have obligations as President of the Generalitat and he has obligations as President of the Spanish Government. The method I will use to relate to the other administrations is collaboration, not confrontation. It has always given me the best results, and it is the one I intend to practise. Time will tell if it bears fruit. But the personal relationship we have is beyond this.
Friendship with Sánchez
‘I have a strong political relationship with the president and a personal one, they are separate’.
The issue of the budget execution of investments is a historical clamour. The Chamber of Commerce, business organisations… many entities have highlighted it. What can you do to change it?
There is obvious scope for improvement. The agreement with ERC includes a consortium to execute the investments, which is interesting. The government of Pere Aragonès started a formula of entrustment of management, which means that the money passes from the Spanish budget to the government to execute the infrastructures. This is a path that I will continue to follow.
What inheritance did you find when you arrived at the Generalitat?
We will make an assessment of how things are going, but I have to say that the handover has been exemplary. At the beginning I have had to deal with a very sad event, the murder of two women in Rubí and Castellbisbal. This year we have already had more feminicides than in the last decade. We cannot lower our guard in this area, we must redouble our efforts against male violence.
Investments
‘In budget execution there is obvious room for improvement’.
First you said you would carry out an audit when you arrived and then you said you wouldn’t?
Yes, we want to know where we are, but not so much to pull up the carpet as to diagnose where we can improve. The transfer of the Aragonès government does part of the work for us to have an accurate picture of where we are.
Your election as president of the Parliament was marked by the arrival and escape of former president Carles Puigdemont, how did you experience it?
I have the utmost respect for all political leaders and, in particular, for all former presidents of the Generalitat. From here on, everyone is responsible for their actions. On that day, I spoke out clearly and explicitly in favour of the Amnesty Law being applied swiftly, quickly, without subterfuge, expressing respect for the judiciary, but also asking for respect from the judiciary for the legislature, which has been very clear about the Amnesty Law. I also wanted to signal my respect and confidence in the Catalan police with a visit with Minister Parlon to the headquarters of the Mossos. It is true that things could have been done better that day, but I express my respect for and confidence in the Mossos d’Esquadra.
Puigdemont’s escape
‘I respect all former presidents, but each one is responsible for his or her actions’.
Catalonia is at the bottom in maths, reading comprehension and science results in the Pisa report within Spain, which, in turn, is not very well placed.
How do you intend to reverse this in one term of office?
The experts we have consulted put a time horizon of four to six years to verify improvements in these areas. This is an essential priority and we have to do it with maximum consensus. The first step is to express confidence in teachers and give them the resources to relieve them of administrative tasks so that they can focus on teaching. Councillor Niubó will make a statement on this in a few days. But the time horizon is as I have said. It will not be resolved in a year; it is something that requires more resources but also different ways of working with the sector.
Let’s be concrete: will the sixth hour be introduced? If so, what subjects will be taught, and will there be more VET places?
There is an agreement on this issue, and we need to look at the timetable and agree it with the sector. And yes, it is a priority to strengthen VET, to allocate more resources.
Education
‘The time horizon for reversing the PISA results is four to six years.
Another priority is infrastructures. Will the agreements with ERC and the Commons prevent you from fulfilling your promises to expand the airport and complete the fourth ring road?
As for the fourth ring road, the section that has been agreed as far as Sabadell must be completed. And as for the airport, we have seen this summer that it is reaching the limit of its capacity, and it is a key infrastructure for the economy and the generation of prosperity in Catalonia. We must make its improvement compatible with scrupulous respect for the environment.
It seems that this speech has little to do with the one you made when you were a candidate.
As for the fourth ring road, yes, clearly. If I had 68 MEPs I would complete it, but I do not and I have had to reach some investiture agreements, so we will do the agreed section and we will stop here. Not at the airport. I have always said that it had to be expanded with respect for the environment. My commitment is to improve its connectivity. At the moment I am not in a position to be more specific, but my commitment is the same.
I see Junts very lost, in a radical opposition.
Is it possible to say that in this term of office an airport with more capacity will be built?
Not built, because there is no material time, but yes, my commitment is to resolve this issue during this term of office.
Airport
‘My commitment is to resolve the improvement of El Prat’s capacity during this term of office’.
Another outstanding issue is renewable energy. Will we reach the 20% target by 2030?
There has been improvement in recent years, but there is still a long way to go, and we will have to accelerate the pace of implementation. The first decision will concern the offshore wind farms in the Gulf of Roses. My government will work to make it viable as soon as possible.
In health, some experts estimate that the budget should be increased by 3 billion to ensure proper functioning.
A major effort has been made during this mandate to put more money into public health and more needs to be put in. But in addition to resources, we need to reform the way we do things. We must evaluate the reforms with the sector. We need to rethink and strengthen primary care. We need to integrate health care with social care, to prepare the system to deal with a population with ageing and more chronic illnesses. And we must invest in hospital care. We also need to reach a pact with the different professionals in the sector to work in a more coordinated way than they already do.
Mobility is becoming a chronic problem, especially in the metropolitan area. Do you have any plans in this area?
Metro. This is an issue I have discussed with Mayor Collboni. The issue of metropolitan mobility is closely linked to housing. The Mayor of Barcelona has clearly indicated to me that investment in the metro must be renewed, and I intend to do so. On Rodalies, I believe that the transfer must be completed along with the resources to make the necessary improvements.
Mobility
‘Collboni has asked me to renew investment in the metro and that is what I will do’.
Junts agreed with Sánchez on the transfer of competences in immigration. Will it be done?
I have no objection. I think it’s fine. All competences within the current legal framework should be assumed. My thinking on immigration is that the person who comes here, the immigrant, must be welcomed, must be integrated, and this not only does not jeopardise our identity and our way of being and living, but enriches it. I believe that this is how the history of Catalonia can be interpreted: welcome and integrate.
Some PP leaders have said that immigration could lead us to situations like those experienced in France.
I think there are people who make speeches that appeal to the feeling of fear and that do not solve anything. What needs to be done is to provide resources and implement solvent policies in the neighbourhoods. I recommend that these leaders read the latest Bank of Spain report on immigration, which states that 78% of them have jobs. This is the highest rate of immigrant employment in the EU, and they make an important contribution to our economic progress. Moreover, we need them for the productive fabric of the country, for SMEs. If they are welcomed and integrated, they help us to grow and prosper. There are people who want to set fires. We have seen it in the UK, with fake news. I am very serious about dismantling piece by piece and systematically this feeling of fear and hopelessness, which is a cancer on our coexistence. Catalonia’s recent history is quite the opposite. The Government and the city councils have a key role to play. That is why we have set up a commissioner for the law on neighbourhoods, and the mayors will notice this in the resources.
Immigration
‘We have to welcome and integrate, and this does not put our identity at risk, but rather enriches us’.
What do you think of Junts’ accusations that there is nepotism in your government due to the hiring of Paneque’s partner and the sister of Mayor Collboni? (The interview was conducted hours before Paneque’s partner resigned on Friday as the councillor’s chief of staff).
Look, I see them as a little lost, with all due respect. Junts is the leading opposition party, with 35 MPs, it is a force that claims to be the heir of the party that governed Catalonia for many years and I think they have something to contribute. I see them lost in a line of radical opposition and not of construction.
In this interview you wanted to send a positive message to the rest of Spain.
Which will be the first region you will visit as President?
I haven’t decided, but I do want to visit several. I will explain that what is good for Catalonia is good for Spain as a whole and vice versa. In the coming months I hope to be able to do so in depth.
Relationship with Madrid
‘Those who want to fight with me are going to have a hard time; I am here for something else’.
As Minister of Health, he already had a complicated relationship with the Community of Madrid.
As President of the Generalitat, I want to have the best possible relationship with the Community of Madrid, naturally defending the interests of Catalonia. But I am not here to fight with anyone. Those who want to fight with me are going to have a hard time because I am here to do something else, for that they should find someone else.
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